March 17, 2022

Dr Lalit Gautam

Founder and CEO


Dr. Lalit has a degree in pharmaceutical Medicine (Pharm Doc) with an MBA in International marketing and entrepreneurship with over 12 years of startup experience. TEDx Speaker, Two times Forbes 30 Under 30 for Technology Manufacturing for India and Europe, MIT 35 Under 35. Lalit has One exit and founded 3 startups. Born and grew up in a small village of Uttar Pradesh to the most awarded Agriculture entrepreneurs in the world.

Lalit is the Founder and CEO of Sensegrass. Sensegrass is a moonshot Agri tech company solving the biggest issue of soil fertility by predicting and eliminating the excess fertilizers from the soil to help small-scale farmers grow faster and healthy.

Lalit is a public speaker as well and has spoken on varieties of topics from Future of SDGs to Civic education in the Arab world, unsustainable business model importance in startups to Human IQ vs Future of AI, etc at various platforms including UN HQ in Geneva. Lalit is the first and only entrepreneur awarded by 5 Startup residencies by giving nations.

Being a Farmer Lalit is passionate about environmental and biodiversity issues, He is a climate reality leader, Audi Environmental Fellow, Ashoka Changemaker Exchange, Bosch fellow. Nominated by PM for Climate leader as well.

Forbes 30 under 30 for Technology Manufacturing


startup, people, mentor, person, years, journey, India, contraceptives, find, problem, biggest, co-founder, goals, skills, decided, KPIs, MBA, founder, ecosystem, kinds


Cyron Chan, Lalit

Cyron Chan  00:09

Thanks for joining the CEO Class. It is a global for-impact initiative, and we hope to engage with different CEOs around the world and share more about their goals and growth. We have Lalit as our guest today. Can you share about yourself and what you do?

Lalit  00:49

Thanks, Cyron. Thanks for having me here today. Good morning, everyone. This is Lalit Gautam. I'm the founder and CEO of Sensegrass. Just to give you a quick intro about myself, coming from India, born into a back in India,   from a middle-class family. And now I'm a serial entrepreneur. I founded three companies in the past and currently working on a brilliant and innovative solution for agriculture and climate tech to reduce the impact on our earth by using an update into solutions using IoT sensors and AI stuff. So this is what we do in a sense for us, but maybe I'll go a little bit into the past and talk to you about my previous journeys. So as I said, the background I have come from is a pretty non-entrepreneurship non-business kind of background. Doing something starting from there was a bit difficult, but like, also very new for the community I came from, right and me. And then,   I've started pharmaceutical science. I've done the doctor pharmaceutical science and medicine for five here. And then, I work as a research scientist for stem cells for a year. And I did and then decided to go for the business side of the world, like,   because my interests mainly were solving some of the critical problems on this earth. And then, I went for an MBA completed my MBA. I didn't fit into the corporate culture. And this is how the journey of the startup things started in 2015. Maybe, we talk more about this stuff and my work about my other personal property. But   that's all from my side, in short,

Cyron Chan  02:33

yeah, it's unique. So, for the audience, if you have any questions, anything you ask, you want to ask just through between it put in the chat or the q&a sessions, and then we will answer it. And yes, you mentioned you started your first base first startup when you were still Thunderbird, as I know, so actually, how's the journey, like, you started just right, you graduate from universities, or I'll tell you, you try some full-time job. You find it that is more suitable, suitable for you as an entrepreneur.

Lalit  03:14

Yeah, just sign on,   going again, the back. So when I was I was, I was in my undergrad, right, I was doing my degree in pharmaceutical science. And I think during one of them, during the third year, in the second year of my college, I decided to launch, so I got theses about the emergency use of contraceptives. So usually, when we talk about contraceptives, the contraceptives are like the prevention measure to get charged. So, I was working on a fascinating thesis about diffusion and stuff. So, typically, contraceptive usually comes into the pill's form, right. But like,   the, my idea, my project was, like,   creating a kind of device that defuse the kind of smell, or a or a, or a variety of a perfume kind of situation that can go into the, into the room and without taking any pills, anything like that, you simply get the, you absorb the, of the, of the, on the contraceptive kind of the ingredient, we call it, like the drug or the salt in the, in the more technical word, but for the general audience, like it's more like an inner kind of smell or the or the oil. So, that was the idea.

Eventually, the interesting was very. The story was fascinating because it ultimately came like a kind of my undergrad thesis. But like, people love it a lot, right? And then value proposition the innovation part was that there was no adverse effect of taking the pills that time right you can simply like,   put into the, into the room and it was on the unisex way. So it was unique, and I think it was the first time I was 2122. That was the first time like, I realised, like,   these kinds of things that excite me and we can, we can change,   the scenario of how we use this either problem, just to add one more line into this as well, like, as I said, like, I come from India, right. And back then, or even now,   building something and being a startup founder still is a very new thing in the Indian ecosystem, and I'm sure, like, right now, I mean, us. And I've seen the same this is; this is not the popular culture, this is still like,   the minority culture. But like, now, people are moving toward this thing as well. Just to compare them to compare the age stuff like if you see this is a millennial and the Genji kind of culture right now, this is the generation of them, people usually starting at a very early stage when like a few years back. Usually, the average age was slightly different from what you can see these young folks these days.

Cyron Chan  06:03

Huh? Yeah, that's true. But like, in your, your entrepreneur journey, any because challenge or difficulties you face?

Lalit  06:14

Yeah, I would like an entrepreneurship journey. Always have challenges. Yeah,

Cyron Chan  06:21

I know. It's tough. Yeah.

Lalit  06:23

It's tough. Right? It's, but I think, yeah, I'm like,   so again, I would like to answer differently. Of course, the challenge is always the roadblocks, like a day. When I officially started my first startup back in 2015, it was a marketplace to connect the designers and artisans. So so, it was a very,   kind of complex business model where I had to travel to the rural communities in India, Asia, in Africa, in connecting to the designer who was based out in New York and Milan, and all these countries. And in the tricky part was like,   connecting, educating your people, educating not just your customer, educating not just your beneficiaries, but also educating the people around you. Because you have to convince your friends, families, and other people that whatever you're doing is the right step. So, of course, fortunately, the biggest strength of my entire career so far is my family, like they supported me. One of the stakeholders I had to convince was already convinced, right. So that was the most significant part for me, like, if you convince your family, you are good to go. And then you have the rest of the thing that you can easily tackle. But like,   just to Long story short, I think the challenges are everything everywhere, like and it's every day, you will find some different challenges and being an entrepreneur, that that's the most extensive MBA,   lesson you usually learn, you won't get these kinds of tasks when you do the MBA in the colleges. I'm not. I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just comparing with that limited classroom MBA versus an actual MBA. So these are the primary teaching of the businesses and how to manage the thing. But I think the one thing I've seen is a very different way. It also depends on people to people. How do they usually see the challenges, right? When I see a lot of problems, maybe for me, these are not problems, or these are not challenges. I'm simply seeing this as one of the parts of your journey, but maybe for many other people, even very different things can be a problem. So I think companies depend on people to people person to person, how do we say that? How do we say, like, the challenges, so it's also like,   the definition of the challenges and roadblocks are pretty different from person to person?

Cyron Chan  08:53

Yeah, yeah. That's true. Like, so. Um, yeah, as I know, now, your startup is working on some related agriculture. So, can you share more about, like, actually, what, what you what motivates you to do this startup? Is it related to your family? Or, or something triggered us to work on this? This idea?

Lalit  09:24

No, I don't. I think there's a personal Connect is a unique story behind this. So I, of course, like in India, almost like it's an agricultural-based economy. Eventually, each and everyone in India somehow directly indirectly connected to agriculture. So why am I right? My grandfather used to have big large farms back in India to produce a state that is the largest in India. So I have seen like,   when I was kid, I have seen this kind of stuff, right? But my dad moved away, and he wasn't part of that kind of ecosystem. So I think the first point the first doesn't connect comes from the right. And then eventually, when I grew up, I started biotech as a pharmaceutical biotechnology job. And then, after my MBA, I got associated with a lot of organisations, such as the World Economic Forum UN, and I got a chance to expose to a lot of climate change kind of communities. This kind of sector always excites me. So they don't have a 99 decided, like, now I have to connect the dots from my biotech degree to my experience into the rural communities and also experienced into the the the sustainability and climate change kind of ecosystem. And then I think that's motivated me, especially like agriculture, and food will always remain in the world, right?

No matter if you are in an NGO or COVID. And all this situation, you always like going to consume the food, but the way you're going to grow, the food will continually change. And I think that's why there were two angles for why I started Sentra. The first, of course, the impact angle, my own stories, my phone connections, and the connects I have seen in my last couple of years' journey. But the second was about the more business side, like at the end of the day when you're running a business, you have to grow, you have to give a return to your investment stakeholder unless and this is a vast industry. There's a lot of scope for innovation. Tracking, that's motivated me to start Chanceless.

Cyron Chan  11:27

Yeah, that's, that's cool. The like, time, they may be tried to we like for the audience, like perhaps they're also thinking about whether they should start their business, or they better for them to start a full-time job first. So any advice from you? How should they find their passion or see what they want to do? I think this is quite a big question for young people nowadays.

Lalit  12:00

Yeah, do I think passion is a very overused or misused word. Having a passion is always good, but having a B plan is even more important, right? I think you are also coming from the Asian community, right? We have kind of,   that and I feel like, I'm not, I'm not talking about the more cultural thing. Still, when you talk about like,   very general something, I think you have to decide to I think, first of all, like,   if you doing and if you're running and if you want to do at startup just because other people doing and just because it's cool. I don't think, so it's a good step, right? This is something you have to be. It's a marathon, right? People call it like, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon, so you have to be well prepared for at least 567 years of grilling. So if you thought this without getting paid, please go for a foreign startup. But I think these days, especially like when I started since my startup, or even the generation who have started even before me, like those who are right now 40 45 50 year old, they have also done I'm like the challenge for them even much higher. Still, if you see the current generation, they have a lot of facilities, a lot of funds in the market, a lot of Slater, and a lot of ecosystem enablers in the market. So, these are the journey, but there's also a lot of competition. So, I think coming back to the main point is a couple of suggestions to the young folks who want to do their startup. I think you have to be. You cannot just simply go with a passion. You have to think very logically. So, for example, when I started the agricultural startup, I wasn't only passionate enough. Still, I also think about the different things like what is the market looks like, what is the requirement, what are the fundamental problems, how are we going to solve them, how are we going to scale it right. So, these kinds of market research or understanding that market way whatever you are planning to do is essential. You also have to bring a good team member. The biggest strength is that your team member is your co-founder if you find the wrong person. So, like many times, people say startups are like marriages, right. And imagine if you find the bad husband or wife in your life the same goes with the startup as well, you have to find the right people.

Because like half of your challenge will disappear if you find the right co-partners because you will solve all these problems together. The third thing usually starts small, tested, validated, fail. Again repeat the same process,   and then eventually slowly as I said, like nowadays there is a lot of startup support,   in the different parts of the world. So you can get a lot of benefits, but I think I think these are you have to be Very persistent and. And you should be patient enough to be a startup founder. You cannot like this is not something it's like it will give you success. In a day or two, you have to be built, and you have to be very patient about until you make a product until you are users using this product. And until you get the revenue from that product, I think it's a long journey is, a marathon. So if you have patience, persistence, and of course, if you have a passion, these.

Cyron Chan  15:35

That show should. I agree with you on the importance of finding the right co-founder. So allow your team to share how you can. How do you find your co-founders? How do you manage the relationship?

Lalit  15:59

that's a good question. So I don't. I think finding, finding a co-founder is like discovering you're finding your wife. Yeah. I'm going to the same point. It's like,   either you have an option like, if you go with according to my country, your parents will find your wife, right, or whatever. And if you go with like the other culture, maybe you have the other dating sites to find you, so I think I think star founders are pretty much seen. So either like, usually, a lot of times what I've seen startups, like, usually co-founders are the dose, you typically find in your universities, or maybe in your,   in your corporate offices, where you work in the past. And usually, you get like, kind of,   because this is when you spend a lot of time with that person, right? So I think the founding of the founders is the one. That's why, like a lot of time when you go to the investor, people ask you, Hey, how long have you known each other? This question is because how exactly and how do you know about each other from the past, right. So usually, the founder kind of stuff comes from your universities, your corporate job. Usually, most people are like doing this partnership together. But people like me, generally if I give an example of my case, in my case, I started the company alone. And then solo because I didn't wait for the like just finding because it's a very natural process, you cannot force yourself to find a co-founder,   it, that's the reason I always keep the example of like the dating kind of service, you cannot force yourself to find a girlfriend or a boyfriend, right? It's a very natural process, right? It goes with the flow. And in my case, like,   when I started the company, I was in touch with many people, right. And then,   one of my co-founders will join me, like,   because we have known each other for the last seven years, and we never got a chance to work together in the past, especially for him started. Still, we operate a lot with other different nonprofits projects and projects. So then,   we match our skills, like,   we have the same interest, like we,   we find that,   our mission, or tech skills, our,   the passion about like, changing the food ecosystem was was was joint. And as I said, like it, it went through a process. When we met when we started the discussion, it took almost one year before we decided that he would join me. He decided, hey, this is something I'm also very passionate about. I like the way you are working. Let let me join, and this is how it started. Right. For for for my first company. I think that's also an exciting thing. When I just came up from my MBA college, I had the idea of Headstart, right. I shared it with my so-called close friends, which you usually go-to for the first time, right? Of course, like their mission was different, they were on a very different path in their life. And they refused, so we didn't impact my relationship with them as a friend. Because it's pronounced, right? Your best friend cannot be your family. There's no guarantee that your best friend will be your co-founder, Right? Or, or, or your wife or your husband is going to be a co-founder can come from anywhere again, it's a natural process most of the time, but sometimes it's suddenly clicked like hey, you met in a conference or maybe you met someone and then perhaps you your thinking is pretty exact. Then you so I think that's how it was but if you the last line about the relationship currently so the understanding, the connection is pretty good. It is like we are two different people we know about each other. We are also expanding our founding team to make the process more decentralised.

Cyron Chan  19:49

Yeah, that's cool. But like in your entrepreneur journey, so do you have a clear milestone for yourself? Like up to one year, I shave at which psi or maybe like, up to three or five years if I cannot get like a bit fundings and I, I usually change to and other directions and the end it is kind of plan for yourself.

Lalit  20:19

That's an important Great question. So I don't think that's that. I have my own KPIs or goals. Yeah, I have paid for myself as a person as Gotham, not as the company's founder. They, we do have, we do have the KPIs and goals for the company as well. But definitely, you should have your and I think this is. This is the same discussion I was having with a couple of my friends here, that,   setting up your own KPIs, your milestone, you cannot be just struggled for like, five years, seven years, ten years, you have to find, like, startups are like, I don't know if I use the word here or not. But startups are like cocaine, right? It makes you addicted.   once you get into the startup, even though you're working 18 hours, you're not getting paid, you have a lot of problems, tension and on, but you keep going,   this is how the startups passionate,   founders feel, but I think that's not good, right? That's not good. I call it a cookie because it's not good for you. Right? So the problem is that you have to decide and find out the boundaries of your journey. Let's see if you're working three years, four years in a startup. Again, there's no timeline. There's no success formula and a startup. One of the biggest things that people have to learn is that there is no success formula for a startup. You don't know what is going to be successful, what is going to be failed in how many days in how many minutes with how much funding, you can be successful in six months, you cannot be successful in 10 years, you can be successful without funding you can be successful with you cannot succeed with 100 million funding as well. So there is no such support. But I think the important part is that you have to decide those goals, which is helpful for you, which is helpful for your family and the other people around you to see what extent you can go. Point one now coming if I give you the same example of my life, I have decided this. So the first couple of years when I was in my other startup. I was like, definitely like hustling from the first day, and I still am now hustling from it. This is the sixth or seventh year of my startup. But I think as you asked, a very great question is about how you see like, what kind of the KPI on the goals you have for you. For some people, these are financial goals. Oh, I have to be a millennial. I have to raise like $5 million. For at least for my own seven, you have to be with 100 million or 1 million saving for yourself, right? For some people reaching out to 200k USD, MRR is the goal, right? And for some people reaching sustainable growth, having a house with a wife, a kid, a decent good family with a decent earning startup is good. So I think there were a couple of things for me, right? Financial for sure, of course, that's come naturally. But I think before that, for me, was the satisfaction than that the moment I lost any interest in the work I was doing, I'd stop working.   that was my biggest goal,   then, how I'm going to decide my journey, and which is still going on. I haven't reached that point where I lost any interest in the startup. I'm not talking about specific interests. I'm just talking about general,   to do a startup thing, right. So that's one thing. The second point is, of course, that you also have to be sacral or in your you're creating your wealth when I say the older man, definitely his financial wealth, your housing, your cars, your saving, but also the wealth in terms of your, your wisdom, your intellect, intellect,   intellectual wisdom or the intellectual? I think that was one of the biggest goals for me. And in the last six, seven years, I've changed. I've done a lot in that kind of stuff. So can I say I'm prosperous in terms of intellectual wealth, which I had decided when I started samskaras or my first startup, right? You have a lot of learnings, a lot of exposure, and wisdom, which you would never get in a job. For example, For example, if I consider that, okay, now I have to quit my startup. And I have to go back to my normal life. And I say normal life, which means maybe going back to the corporate job, or maybe, I can go and join some university and start teaching people. I have that enough experience and intellectual wealth, which I can see other people. Right. So I think these were some of my goals, which I am, and I have achieved some. But it's a continuous process. I just keep making the goals. I keep increasing the risk level. And I'm trying to keep reaching those goals every day, every month or every year. So these are your personal KPIs, which you have to decide. And then there are company profiles, company KPIs, which normally companies do, so I'm not going to go into that direction.

Cyron Chan  25:51

Yeah, yeah. That should. It is, it is straightforward to add tech to the, to the journey and, and feel like, yeah, it's something cool to keep going. But usually don't have a plan or a person or KPI to work on it. So, again, for the audience, if you have any questions, anything you want to ask, just feel free to put in the chat or the q&a sections. So now, it is. It is good that on your side, the Cova is not a big challenge at the RSI, and I guess like in Hong Kong. It is still quite challenging or quite unstable situations in some countries. I think like, especially for the young people maybe like they, it makes them feel they're pretty in a stable for their futures. So do you have any advice for young people in this kind of situation? How can they better prepare themselves, like ticking more cars or investing more in the different types of skills or mindset change? What kind of things do you think, like, at this moment, it is essential or suitable for them to, to invest more time or resources on it?

Lalit  27:20

That's another good question. I think the last year, right? Yeah, we overrun even now. I consider this is the third year of COVID. Right? I think, especially when we talk about the millennials and the Gen Z folks or the young men, right? It was one of the best times for them. Maybe many people are not going to relate to me, or they were not going to agree with what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is, of course, the COVID. We talk a lot about the bad things about the COVID, which is true. But the COVID also comes as a blessing in disguise for many reasons, especially what is startup-like. When you see these kinds of problems, you become like an entrepreneur. You have to solve those problems. And this two, three years gave us a lot of pain. Everything was locked down. Everything was clear. There's a lot of intervention,   came out from this two years, like people have started to online days,   teaching and all especially, especially for the young people, they learn a lot of kind of skills, that how they can judge the penetration of these people the young kids to towards the internet was highest people were using the as we were making the TIC tock we were using they become an influencer, they become blogger, they become like they started teaching to I follow like, I follow Twitter, I follow YouTube and all these platforms. And when you see it, you will find a lot of 18-year-old, 13-year-old 20-year-old people the kids are using. They like investing in stocks they are investing in,   they're making the Tick Tock they become a very,   they have like ten 1000s of followers on tick-tock and Instagram. So they cook they become influencers. So I think you have to put like you if you cannot simply sit down and like if you have spent this two years sitting down and locked down in your room in your house and doing nothing and just playing a game. I think that's not the good thing I'm like, but if you explore the opportunities around you while sitting down in your room and your house locked down in the last two years, you definitely will bring something out of that. So because this is the best time, even if you see the general startup ecosystem for the last two years, the highest numbers of investment deals have happened in the previous two years. The accelerated like Y Combinator is that they are collecting hundreds of startups. If you see the unicorn number in the last two years, the highest right? The highest number of unicorns you came out from the startup world. So I think this Two years per startup was the perfect light. And this the reason is that the penetration again, I'm repeating the same centre, the penetration of people using these kinds of solutions in technology was was beautiful. And, and you have, you have giant,   the bunch of problems which you can solve using the internet using the platform during the test. So I think my suggestion to these young folks is to utilise this opportunity, right? Of course, this is a pandemic. We all face a considerable time,   tough time, but like, tough time always teach you to solve this problem to bring the innovations. So, I think that's what I've observed people, as I said, like, many people have taken this opportunity and started doing some,   very, very productive. But of course, I can see in the next few years is going to be even more interesting from the startup point of view, that how you're going to see the word post-pandemic, if the pandemic will, will be over in the coming months or a year. Yeah,

Cyron Chan  31:12

yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, always more problem means more opportunities you can work on, right. As I know, you did a lot of mentoring or mentorship for the startup. So I think it's, it's great. And can you share more about, like, your view on mentorship? Like, for the, for the student or young people? Is it? Is it good for them to like, look for the mentorship or how they can start?

Lalit  31:47

Yeah, having a mentor having a coach is not mandatory, but it's always good. It's always a recommended process,   step four for them. In my case, I think I always believe that there's a desert No, no such formula to being a mentor. Like, often people say the person with like 40 years of experience with grey hair is the right mentor because the person has a lot of experience to share with you, which is good, which is true. But I think men can anyone can be mentor, right?   a 13 or 15-year-old can be a mentor for you, because the person technically mentors no one is just sharing the views,   like they sharing their own opinions, they're not giving you advice. So the difference between like,   the teacher, the coach, and the mentors are all different. Being a life mentor or a business mentor is always a good option. If you have anyone in your network, you think that this person will help me, like,   make me him or your mentor, but I think the most crucial part is that mentors always share their opinions. This is the correct definition of a mentor. If the mentor is not telling you, you should do this. You should do that. That's not the mentor. That's like, that's your spot. A sports coach, right? Because the sports coach know what is right what is wrong. But like, typically, the life and business mentors are sharing their opinions, which you have the right to, to,   to, to implement or to,   to take this decision or the suggestions or the views in your life not. But these are always a second opinion. The third opinion, right? That's why I like it because you, as a person, always think that you are right? Or you are the wrong may be correct, but you always have the one view. But when you have someone more experienced than you as your mentor, they always bring a different perspective. They always get a different viewpoint. Again, as I said, when you have the two views, you have two options to choose one. And if you have three and it's the same as your choices, your options are always much higher. So this is not like an objective type of question with four options. There's only one right option to choose all four in mentorship like if you have four people as an as your mentor, all the four opinions are correct; it just you have to decide which one you have to choose, and you think that this is going to be the right fit with my experience. So I guess I think having a mentor is always good. Unfortunately, I didn't have a mentor for my personal life in the last many years, like when I was a student when I was like, you know, doing my undergrad and master's, but when I entered into the business side like my startup side like yes, I do have mentors in the past now as well most mainly like a business mentor. Still, I always learn many things from personal mentors, which remain why my father has always been a mentor for me since I was a kid.

Hence, I think you know that's I say I have the mental maybe not from the outer side and mental can be anyone it could be your father your wife or your kids can. So I think it just says is a deficit of the mantle. Still, like being me, as a mentor for the startups and the insulators and university, I always share my experience and my opinions as I see. Because I was exposed to many startups, I was told about many industries. And as I said, like, I also gained a lot of intellectual Wells, during the last six, seven years, so I also always try to share with these folks right, as a part of them,   the system. And this is my way of so this is my, like, pro bono kind of profile, which I feel that if I have gained something from this, this ecosystem, as a startup founder, I think I should share with the other people as well as to giving back to the community. So, and again, as I said, there is a no success formula, they say, you cannot measure the success like hey, this mentor is good, or this mentor is terrible. It's just like,   how the things and I think the most significant mentor for you is yourself into running a startup, you are the best mentor for yourself, you can have the other people who will share their opinions with you. And you have the freedom to choose or not to choose.

Cyron Chan  36:11

Yeah, yeah, there's reaches. Yeah. So, um, I think that is, do you have the last few lines for the audience or the young people, like, especially one on their personal goals or growth, because,   in CEO class, we, we want to inspire them more on like, how they plan their goals and how they can invest for their growth? So, do you have the last few lines for this kind of perspective?

Lalit  36:52

Yeah, definitely. I think my last, the conclusion of the entire discussion is like,   especially like, I'm now I'm not going to talk about the business side, like let's talk about the personal growth and the business stuff, I think the biggest thing anyone person has to do in this current,   scenario is like, you create your Veldt, you, you work on your personal growth, because at the end of the day, you are the person who is running companies, who is running the government who is running anything, so the human-run this kind of stuff. So if you want you on yourself, on your personal growth, when I say the personal development, it means to try to become a good person, like,   try to work on your negative things, maybe your anger may be or any other skills, try to work on your skills, like more technical skills, like maybe start to learn to code, start learning, writing or content writer or perhaps some skills like Hobby, like games, horse riding and all anything, I mean, like, it cannot be just simple technical skill, it can be some hobbies and other skill stuff as well. Then your skills, as I said, like personal skills, or like,   how to communicate with the people how to be being a nice, like, being a nice is entirely free of cost in this world. So these are the important ones. So, technically, you always consider yourself your company is your startup and try to groom that startup and build that startup from scratch to the next level. And if you do this, and if you become a, a wonderful person, right? If you work a lot on your skills personal growth, and eventually, at the end of the day, you will run the other things. So it will directly impact your business. So your business also shows how good a person you are. I think that's the conclusion. And at the end of the day, startups, corporates, all these things will have a kind of life cycle. No, they have validity, but you will remain with you as a person. So whatever items you have learned, whatever the investment you have done on yourself, will stay with you forever. So, I think this time is very crucial. There is competition, technology, support, benefit, and utilise. And if you work on yourself on your personal growth with all these points, which I mentioned, maybe there are several other points, well, you will be an excellent asset for the rest of the world, but you will also be a tremendous asset for yourself. So believe in yourself, work on yourself, and become a very effective and wonderful human being while working on your personal growth. So I think that's my A few last lines about the personal growth that I've seen in my case and what's my suggestion to them to other people?

Cyron Chan  40:09

Yeah, yeah, there's that's great works. And, yeah, fans rallied today. And it's great to have you for these sessions and fans all the audience to join us. And if you want to, we wish you the content. Please follow our podcast, social media, and all the channels. You can always get inspiration and some insight on this. So again, as you want, let's catch up in the following sessions. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Thanks. Yeah, as late. Yeah. Have a nice day. Thank you. Take care. Bye, guys. Yeah, bye.